Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap

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Speaker 1
Welcome back. How are you doing?

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Speaker 2
I'm doing great. You doing that?

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Speaker 1
Welcome back to Behind the Pixel. My name is Will.

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Speaker 2
My name is Kathryn.

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Speaker 1
And we are the co-founders of Open Pixel Studios. We're an animation studio out in western Massachusetts.

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Speaker 3
And yes.

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Speaker 2
No one says no. There was a whole marketing campaign. We'll talk about that, especially this campaign. This is Behind the Pixel, an Open Pixel Podcast where we try to bridge the knowledge gap between those who buy creative content and those who make it.

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Speaker 1
So this podcast, we created this podcast because we wanted to teach people how to talk to and understand a little bit of the workflow, the pipeline, the behind-the-scenes of how things are made in the creative industry, in the creative economy, so mainly focused on animation. But today we're talking to someone from the live-action world.

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Speaker 1
Yet again, I'm super excited for today's guest. Do you know who it is?

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Speaker 2
Are you trying to pull a smart list right now? Well, we don't know what today's guest is, even though it's been booked for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3
Yeah.

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Speaker 1
It has been. Alex Terrill has been writing, directing, and producing. He is the owner of Terrill Productions out in western Mass. It's done a lot of work for a lot of different kinds of clients. So there's been... I'm going to name a few of them here to name-drop on his behalf. 21st Century Fox, Paramount Pictures, ESPN, Reebok, UMass. He's done Shark Week, which we will learn a little bit about L.L. Bean.

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Speaker 1
One of my favorite beans. I don't know if. Do you like it? How many beans do you like? Kidney beans? Pinto? Those pintos.

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Speaker 2
Pinto beans.

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Speaker 1
Those are good. Those pintos.

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Speaker 2
I was going to say chick beans, and then I realized it was.

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Speaker 3
Chickpeas.

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Speaker 1
Chick beans.

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Speaker 3
I don't think those.

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Speaker 1
Those are a thing. Refried though.

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Speaker 3
Refried.

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Speaker 1
Anyway, his talent and reliability has gained him lots of respect from us and also people in the area and in in greater Boston. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
He's just been an awesome person to collaborate with and yeah, I think we really got the sense even during our conversation with him about just how much he cares about the projects that he works on, but also the people behind the project.

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Speaker 1
And that's you know, we've been, we've been I feel like that's a trend in the people who we work with, people who understand production and people understand the pipeline and the workflow, people who who have been in those shoes before and can providing the right atmosphere for those people to thrive in.

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Speaker 2
So, yeah. So we're going to learn a lot with him together. It was really, really awesome to talk to him. And why don't we jump in?

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Speaker 1
Let's do it. Thank you, Alex, for being here. I'm very excited to have you on.

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Speaker 2
We are very excited to have you on.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, but but I'm more excited. I think I want to make sure of that.

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Speaker 3
Oh, yes. I'm really excited that you're doing this.

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Speaker 4
And competition is good and healthy.

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Speaker 3
So it is you.

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Speaker 2
Know, it never, never hurts, except when you go a little too far. Yeah, that's true. Competition, for.

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Speaker 3
Sure.

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Speaker 1
So a lot of our audience may not know who you are. So let's just start with tell us tell us a little bit about Terrell Productions. Am I pronouncing that right? Yes. Terrell, yes. How long have you been at it? Because you've been at it for a while. And what kind of work do you mainly do?

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Speaker 4
Yes. So I started literally while I was still in college, renting my college cameras and making a profit. And that's the way to do it, kids.

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Speaker 3
So, you.

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Speaker 4
Know, so I've been doing this for ten years. I'm a director of photography and executive producer at Terrell Productions. It's really just me and I hire out contractors to work with me and crews and awesome people like Open Pixel to help me animate stuff. But it's a lot of shooting, a lot of editing, a lot of drone work and it's I run the full gamut.

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Speaker 4
There are some things that I try to avoid when it comes to video, but for the most part, I will humor you and listen to what your project is, and I would be happy to give you a quote and figure out how we can solve your problems.

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Speaker 2
Nice.

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Speaker 1
Nice. Now, what with the drones. That's engine. I didn't realize you did. You did drone work. Oh, yeah. Like now I'm just a little curious about that.

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Speaker 4
Oh, it's awesome. Have you ever driven a remote control car?

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Speaker 1
Yeah, a lot. When I was five.

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Speaker 3
I was like, that was the reason why I started it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4
Yeah. And it's very much like driving a little RC car, but it's just flying around in the air and sky's the limit. See how I do that?

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Speaker 3
I know.

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Speaker 1
So the reason we put together this podcast in general is because we want to inform people who buy creative content by live action production or animation or anything really to get a sense of what it's like behind the scenes, right? Like what is it that makes our lives maybe more difficult and like, you know, be aware of that, maybe makes our lives easier and be aware of that.

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Speaker 1
And just like expand the knowledge gap there a little bit because we started doing this, you know, a long time ago and being able to just produce something because we know how it works comes naturally to us. But with people who are trying to hire us have no idea usually and so when they get to us, they feel like, Oh, there might be like a hesitation there, can I do this?

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Speaker 1
Can I not do this? That kind of thing.

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Speaker 2
There's a lot of questions to answer.

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Speaker 4
Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1
What are some of the most common challenges, do you think that you face that that are solved through video? How do your clients come to you and say, okay, what do they need usually in the live action? Yeah, like why are people using?

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Speaker 4
So it's kind of like a 5050 split. I want to say where some people are, they know exactly what they want and they know exactly how they're going to do it and they know that I have the capabilities of doing it. And so they come to me and I give them a quote and we sit down and we talk about the stuff when we have like a couple meetings beforehand for pre-production.

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Speaker 4
So just like work things out and then there's like the other side of the gamut where I have people come to me and say, Hey, we need video. And I'm like, Cool, what's your name? What's your product?

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Speaker 3
What? What do you mean?

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Speaker 4
And as creatives, I mean, you guys know it's probably similar for you too, but yeah, I have some people just say we need to integrate video content into our our lifestyle and our business and our company. And that's internal videos, that's web videos, that's promotions, that's like social media. It's like all sorts of the that run the gamut.

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Speaker 4
So that is kind of a challenge is when people approach me and they don't know exactly what they want. They want to quote like right away and it's kind of hard to get an idea of exactly what they want and then quote them for it. I feel like I'm pretty good at it, but I have to like really have a sit down conversation with them and ask them a whole slew of questions that I have preprogramed in my brain at this point and can say like, okay, this is what you need for equipment, for crew, for pre-production, for production and post-production.

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Speaker 4
This is how long it's going to take. And this is what the final video is going to be. And this is why you need it. And it's going to solve this problem that you have. And so everybody has got a problem, right? And they need it solved through video. When they come to me, it's just establishing what that problem is and how we're going to solve it.

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Speaker 4
And that's really why people come to me. I can use an example of this company, Kumail I shot videos for them. They're precious metals refining facility and nobody really knows what goes on in those places.

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Speaker 3
And.

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Speaker 4
How much money is.

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Speaker 3
Going through. Yeah.

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Speaker 4
And so they wanted to communicate what the process is and why their facility is better than other precious metals refining facilities. And so I made a series of six videos for them about each step of the process, and that was super fun because it's like a day in the life you like go in there and shoot it and get to really be in their worlds.

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Speaker 4
But that's one problem that people have, is how do we communicate what we do to people who don't normally do the things that we do in a way that's clear, cohesive and like quick because the people's attention span is like nothing.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. It sounds like you're like you're a much better version of what is it that show Undercover Boss?

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Speaker 3
We're like.

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Speaker 2
Right where you live, you kind of go into the life of their experience and right and nobody knows, you know, who the bosses and stuff. But you're really doing a lot of important work because you get to shed light on something that otherwise wouldn't have been known. So that's actually really cool. You mentioned that you're running the business on your own, and I want to know a little bit about what that's like being a solopreneur, so to speak, and how you sort of coordinate working with lots of different either vendors or other people being on your own.

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Speaker 2
How do you build those relationships? How do you how do you do it?

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Speaker 4
It's funny you mention that because the past like two years or so, I've been really debating like how do I expand further from here? Like up until about two years ago? I'm like, All right, this is where I want to get to. This is what would make me happy. This is like making X amount of income and having this kind of equipment and setup.

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Speaker 4
And so I feel like I've gotten there and now I'm like, okay, do I hire people full time or part time? And how do you expand and incorporate and all that? Jazz So I've remained solo, sole proprietor, doing business as Tarell Productions right now and managing contractors who I work with on a regular basis. And that's what's really hard about this, is that I love the people that I work with and it's, it's pretty regular and it's, it's on a per job basis.

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Speaker 4
And so that's my biggest concern is hiring somebody and then not having the work, you know, that's everybody's concern. So every time I have a gig, I can say, Hey, I need this camera guy, I need a makeup artist, I need a drone operator, I need a producer to help me organize and manage them and create schedules and contacts, clients and people that we're shooting in locations.

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Speaker 4
And there's just a lot of stuff that goes into it. I like doing a lot of that, but my favorite part is shooting it myself, so I like to just be part of the creative process. In the beginning, have somebody kind of facilitated a bit more communicate with like all the assets that we need to bring together and then I'll show up on set knowing everybody, having been part of these conversations, and I'll shoot it and it'll make it look beautiful.

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Speaker 4
And then I can pass it to an editor and then and then describe like what it is I had in mind for all the shots that I was doing. So but that being said, that's like in an ideal world, sometimes I do all of it.

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Speaker 3
Yes.

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Speaker 2
That is very dependent on the nature of the situation. Yes. The speed of the project. We're totally with you there. I mean, we're yeah, we're we're also I mean, we're as as they say, a micro-business. Yeah. Two or less people.

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Speaker 3
So it's.

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Speaker 4
Trendy.

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Speaker 2
So trendy.

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Speaker 3
Right now. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
So yeah, we've had, I mean similar conversations to saying like even when we bring on interns like even for the summer like we have now, we raise that question all the time being like, okay, if we have projects that aren't related to their skill set, how do we make sure that we're still giving them a challenge or like being able to still work on projects throughout the time together?

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Speaker 2
And how do you navigate making sure you can also play to people's strengths, even if there's maybe a lack of work or there's just a different type of work that's happening. So it's a it's a constant question. I think, like the bigger you grow, you're still dealing with capacity challenges, you're still dealing with how do we, you know, do we go full time?

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Speaker 2
Do we not like those? It's always there. So I think I feel like we're just in it for the ride, so to speak.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, I think someone I don't know where I heard this, but you know, they were describing anxiety as like it's it's constantly being in the present and not knowing what's coming ahead because you just you can never know. And, and I and I, you know, kind of relate that to owning a business in a lot of ways. It's like you just never really know because you're you're in the here and now, but the way I think about it is like, how much time do we have in dollars to be able to plan to get new work?

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Speaker 1
Right. Right. So if I.

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Speaker 4
Think about putting.

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Speaker 1
You know, if I've bought out with the amount of money that I have six months in advance, then I have six months to go figure out what my next gigs are going to be. And I don't really have to worry about it until then. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 4
So that's yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 3
Yeah.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 4
That's a good way of thinking of it. I need a new video camera and it's like ten grand to buy a new video camera. And it's stressing me out right now because, you know, time is money, like you said.

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Speaker 3
Like, yeah.

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Speaker 4
Like for ten grand, like, I could wait this out for, like, you know, three months and feel pretty good, like, if I didn't get anywhere. And right now, it's like or do I drop this and then go back to stressing out and having.

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Speaker 3
Like, right.

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Speaker 1
Is there any way to bring that cost down? Like, can you trade in your old cameras for new cameras like.

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Speaker 4
There is, but like the what you get for it really just doesn't.

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Speaker 1
It's like an old guy, like a yeah, yeah. Everyone's going to be like, Oh, I'll give you $500 for the car.

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Speaker 3
Exactly. This is like.

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Speaker 1
A $5,000.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, literally 12 years. That has 220,000 miles.

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Speaker 3
I agree.

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Speaker 1
9000 dollars.

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Speaker 3
We'll give it.

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Speaker 2
To cross-country road trips. It's it's subtle. It's sort of but. Yeah, so that's that's really interesting, though. I think there's there's a lot to be said about just navigating those. I mean, the budget aspect of things, really. Yeah. Because we're, we're constantly trying to figure out where the next source of revenue is coming from, how we equate that to when we transition into certain things.

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Speaker 2
There's a big conversation in the animation industry right now about like which tools are going to like be the industry standard five, ten, 15 years from now. What is it.

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Speaker 1
Now? I changing a bunch.

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Speaker 2
So, so right now there's still the defaults of like Autodesk, Maya and Adobe double adobe creative suite.

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Speaker 1
Unreal is is taking a lot of people's lunches.

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Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1
As I.

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Speaker 3
Said. Yeah. Not really full because.

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Speaker 1
Because they're, they're trying to expand their, their footprint along multiple types of animation. So it's not just, you know, animation standardized character animation, that kind of thing. It's going into motion graphics and.

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Speaker 2
Well, and the fact that they're free.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, it's free.

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Speaker 3
It's a ton of yeah.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a big avenue and so a lot of free tools like Blender. Yeah. They're, they're really like.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, they make money from games so they have their, their revenue stream is from games. But the actual program, the software is now going to be used for, you know, other types of companies.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's interesting to see. So it's like I'm sure you, you like see this all the time in the industry of like seeing what's coming next and being like, okay, well how do I make the next step towards this? How do we plan for how do we budget for it? There's there's always things to consider.

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Speaker 1
So speaking of planning for stuff, yes. I want to get back to our to our you know, I was thinking about our listeners, their secret listeners. We don't know who they are.

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Speaker 3
I see their.

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Speaker 1
Secret.

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Speaker 3
We missed you.

00;15;17;08 - 00;15;33;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, we see you. We see you. Listener Here's my next question. What should future potential clients of yours or of anyone really looking for live action? What should they know about live action? Video production? From your experience, you know, what's the one thing that they usually like miss or get wrong or forget about?

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Speaker 4
A lot of people don't understand exactly what goes into making like, live production. They think they do. They think you can. A lot of people are like, hey, my phone captures like crazy quality now, so why can't we just capture it on my phone and and I have to basically say, all right, if you want to do it on your phone, you should go with this intern that I have or whatever.

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Speaker 4
But people don't know, like the cost, the time, the crew and the equipment or what I broke it down to is like, what do we need for this set? Specific project? And sometimes it's less than what they thought. And I say, No, you can totally like get away with having two cameras instead of three cameras for this podcast that you're doing.

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Speaker 4
Save some money there and put that money, reallocate it to something else like care, publicity, what are the.

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Speaker 1
Categories? Can you just elaborate on those categories again?

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Speaker 4
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, let's start with costs. So I always have to have this like I have a conversation with what their project is, talk to them more about it. And then at the very end, I'm pretty much like, okay, how much do you want to spend on this? Because we can do this for like 2000 bucks or we can do this for like 10,000 and there's like a lot of middle room there.

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Speaker 4
It's basically like if you have the budget, then we should do it that way because going to be a higher production is going to be better quality and all that stuff. So and it's, it's catered to each individual product. That's something that I can help people just like lockdown. All right, this is your budget. Let's stay within this.

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Speaker 4
This is what we're going to do. This is where it's going to be. This is what we're going to use, etc.. And then we get creative sometimes too, and vice versa. For people who have higher budgets. They say, actually, we wanted to spend 15,000 on this. And I say, okay, cool, let's bring in like the extra drone team and they can get some killer like footage of these cars whizzing around a curve, like, let's, let's make this awesome like.

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Speaker 2
Action shots in.

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Speaker 3
Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Does most of the does most of the stuff that you're talking about in terms of costs like concrete costs. What what are the things that you usually pay for out of you like out of the budget to expand on production quality.

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Speaker 4
Yeah really it's hiring more crew it's that's the majority of it is hiring more crew members with their equipment and their specific skill sets. And the more that you can allocate to different people who are experts in their field, the better quality this is going to be. Like, like I said before, I can do this stuff by myself at a lower rate, but if we bring in some audio guy, your audio is going to sound amazing.

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Speaker 4
And if you have like seven other people speaking like then I don't have to worry about that and I can just make it look pretty, you know, like that for that's just an example. And granted, like some people need to shrink down like for live events production where where it's this elaborate like I shoot half a million dollar parties.

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Speaker 4
These people have like coordinators and it's a half million dollar party with like 300 guests. And you're privately invited to, like, a super crazy mansion in, like, Vermont. That's totally remote.

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Speaker 3
And I figure the sounds like it is super fun. They do a.

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Speaker 4
Halloween party every year and it's just like, yeah.

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Speaker 2
Killer sounds cool. Yeah. Speaking of.

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Speaker 3
And that's just me. Yeah, right.

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Speaker 2
Quick, quick side note there. I also once went to a Halloween party at the house where Mrs. Doubtfire was shot in in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3
Nice. So pretty cool.

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Speaker 2
It's my one like quote unquote claim to be.

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Speaker 3
All right. But then lastly, you sat down by your house. Got it right?

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Speaker 1
Yeah, but you were saying. So it's just you in this one room in a big mansion and like you're shooting around stuff or is that like, is that.

00;19;24;17 - 00;19;50;15
Speaker 4
It's me documenting the entire thing and they hire me to be like a fly on the wall, not intrusive to the guests. It's a minimal package like camera package. And then I produce it and shoot it and edit it. And that's what they want, you know? So sometimes you do downsize, but I like to spread it a bit more just because, like you were saying before, people have their own things.

00;19;50;15 - 00;19;56;27
Speaker 4
One, that things that they love to do and then two things that they're really good at doing and hopefully they're the same thing.

00;19;56;27 - 00;19;59;03
Speaker 3
But right. Agreed.

00;19;59;03 - 00;20;01;22
Speaker 4
And Will's case, he's super handsome, but.

00;20;01;23 - 00;20;04;14
Speaker 3
He just can't he.

00;20;04;14 - 00;20;07;05
Speaker 4
Can't get the microphone close enough to his face.

00;20;07;12 - 00;20;11;18
Speaker 3
No, that's true. That is true. That is so trying to go.

00;20;11;18 - 00;20;11;28
Speaker 2
Back.

00;20;12;01 - 00;20;12;18
Speaker 3
There now.

00;20;13;00 - 00;20;13;12
Speaker 2
I love.

00;20;13;23 - 00;20;17;03
Speaker 3
It. And we're going to we're going to edit that. We're going to we're.

00;20;17;03 - 00;20;18;00
Speaker 1
Going to edit that out.

00;20;18;00 - 00;20;21;08
Speaker 3
We're going to. That's amazing.

00;20;22;17 - 00;20;53;28
Speaker 4
So yeah. So some other points you were saying was time. So time is preproduction, production and post-production. That's you break it down into those three categories and depending on like how many videos you need to do. So like a series of 12 videos is obviously going to take longer than one video that's 30 seconds long. So something that you need to consider and time frames and when people have these do and when they need to release them, like if you have a Christmas thing coming up and you're trying to shoot it in November, that's like a quick timeline.

00;20;54;20 - 00;21;02;16
Speaker 4
That's pretty much that's really hard. But yes, anyway, so that's just one thing. And then the crews we talked about, the crews, like I like to say.

00;21;02;29 - 00;21;04;18
Speaker 1
So sorry, sorry, sorry to cut you.

00;21;04;18 - 00;21;05;03
Speaker 4
Sorry. I'm just.

00;21;05;03 - 00;21;16;03
Speaker 1
Like ideally. No, that's fine. Ideally, if we were going to go backwards, what's an ideal timeline for something that's like for Christmas? Is it would be would it be now like September?

00;21;16;04 - 00;21;21;08
Speaker 4
I'm thinking I mean due for like one, two minute video or like well.

00;21;22;00 - 00;21;23;14
Speaker 1
All right, so too. So let's talk about.

00;21;23;15 - 00;21;26;06
Speaker 3
Let's talk about.

00;21;26;06 - 00;21;43;03
Speaker 1
Yeah, let's go, let's go. It's a two person shoot. It's it's three cameras. It's it's in a studio. It's in a studio. It's in a studio studio. And, and we need to replace the entire background.

00;21;43;03 - 00;21;44;08
Speaker 4
It's not as hard as you think.

00;21;45;00 - 00;21;46;16
Speaker 1
It's not as I know. I know it's not.

00;21;46;16 - 00;21;47;00
Speaker 4
So I.

00;21;47;00 - 00;21;47;24
Speaker 3
Mean, for.

00;21;48;00 - 00;22;10;12
Speaker 4
For the sheer fact that it would be in studio, I could I could confidently say that we can get pretty much whatever you need done in one day because we have complete control of all the elements. Like we're not going outside and shooting and trying to fight sun or trying to fight rain or whether we have perfect audio, we have perfect lighting.

00;22;10;19 - 00;22;29;23
Speaker 4
We can bring in whoever we want, whatever crew to set up. We can do things fast. We can replace backgrounds. Like you said, two cameras gives us the option to cut to different angles. So editing is even easier in that point. So like that would be more of like one month's kind of thing. I could get something like that done.

00;22;29;23 - 00;22;35;04
Speaker 4
It like on average about a month is enough time for the projects that I do that are like two minute videos.

00;22;35;18 - 00;22;56;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it seems like location is a big factor in terms of determining costs because if you're in studio, then that that you like, I can feel the switch in your brain going, Oh, here's a bunch of other things that are sort of standard within a studio environment. And then if you go like outside, then you're like, okay, I'm sure you have a bunch of other things that come up.

00;22;56;06 - 00;22;56;23
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;22;56;24 - 00;22;57;27
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. In a way, it's.

00;22;58;00 - 00;23;01;07
Speaker 3
Like AC Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

00;23;01;07 - 00;23;13;10
Speaker 2
We think about that, I think on the lens of like when we're thinking about style, right? Yeah. Depending on the style it like branches off to create a different subset of costs because the amount of steps required is just going to be depends.

00;23;13;11 - 00;23;18;06
Speaker 1
Do we have characters? Do we not have characters? Is in motion graphics or is it not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;23;18;11 - 00;23;19;09
Speaker 2
That's really interesting. Okay.

00;23;19;17 - 00;23;24;18
Speaker 4
Cool. And I feel and I feel like you guys ask me the same questions every time I ask you for.

00;23;24;19 - 00;23;24;28
Speaker 3
Work.

00;23;25;08 - 00;23;27;25
Speaker 4
And I should just, like, have the answers by now.

00;23;27;25 - 00;23;30;25
Speaker 3
But I always think it's more honest.

00;23;30;25 - 00;23;35;23
Speaker 1
It's more honest not to like we should have a standardized thing that's cool.

00;23;35;24 - 00;23;44;24
Speaker 2
It's like a due diligence thing to just make sure we're like always like on top of the same questions. Yeah, like, yeah, like the clarifications. They're right at the front for sure.

00;23;44;24 - 00;23;55;21
Speaker 4
I wrote up, I wrote up a document that has all my questions that I ask people and I was like, Oh, great, this now I can just automate this. People can fill it out themselves and they can come to me and know exactly what they want. That doesn't work.

00;23;56;01 - 00;23;58;04
Speaker 3
Just not work at all.

00;23;58;21 - 00;24;04;02
Speaker 2
But we started the company. I think we had like a brief on our website. We were like, okay, answer these.

00;24;04;02 - 00;24;05;05
Speaker 1
Like no one wants to fill it out.

00;24;05;05 - 00;24;06;19
Speaker 3
Nobody wants to fill it out.

00;24;06;27 - 00;24;08;08
Speaker 1
They actually want to see you.

00;24;08;08 - 00;24;13;05
Speaker 4
Yeah, we we saw it. I'm like, why didn't you go? I mean, because we had a phone call.

00;24;14;00 - 00;24;15;11
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a lot of typing.

00;24;15;12 - 00;24;18;05
Speaker 3
It's. Yeah, you have to type. I don't want to work that much.

00;24;18;05 - 00;24;19;24
Speaker 2
Yeah, I barely text.

00;24;19;25 - 00;24;20;02
Speaker 1
You my.

00;24;20;02 - 00;24;21;12
Speaker 3
Fingers when I type.

00;24;23;25 - 00;24;24;18
Speaker 2
Too much. It's too.

00;24;24;18 - 00;24;24;27
Speaker 3
Much.

00;24;26;00 - 00;24;42;27
Speaker 2
That's fair. So we've kind of touched on this a little bit, kind of we're getting into the question related to cost again. But yeah, you know, how do you how do you budget live action really like is it is it just taking into account the specific questions that you have or is there more that goes into it?

00;24;43;06 - 00;25;17;15
Speaker 4
The quickest answer that I could say is experience. You just do it around like five years of doing this and working for other people, other professional like executive producers and being a production assistant and a production coordinator and manager and just like working below these people who have it all figured out and feed constantly and work for agencies and like have their, their experience learning from that really helped me get a better understanding of like, okay, this is how you do it.

00;25;17;15 - 00;25;30;21
Speaker 4
And I was asking that for years is how do you bid properly and, and budget properly for a project? And I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone. It was just like like just just just figure it out.

00;25;31;02 - 00;25;34;24
Speaker 3
Like, it'll be fine.

00;25;34;25 - 00;25;35;04
Speaker 2
I go.

00;25;35;20 - 00;25;37;28
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it's, it's experience.

00;25;37;28 - 00;26;01;13
Speaker 4
There's a lot of trial and error and I've been doing it a long time now, so I feel confident that like, yeah, if I can ask you these questions, I can get a better understanding of what you need and what you want, which are two different things. And then quote accordingly for it so that everybody's happy. You know, it's really just about keeping everybody happy, clients happy because they don't have to spend too much cruise, happy because they're getting paid enough.

00;26;01;13 - 00;26;07;04
Speaker 4
And then on the back end, your viewers are happy because the content is nice.

00;26;07;04 - 00;26;07;16
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;26;07;28 - 00;26;29;03
Speaker 2
And you touched a little bit about this in sort of your plastic experience that I think is important to kind of mentioned that when we work in the industry, especially in like slightly different roles, you get to touch a little bit of how each part of the workflow or the pipeline works. And so when you get into starting your own business, it's, it informs so much as you do.

00;26;29;04 - 00;26;45;24
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Really, I commend you for like having some of that experience and being able to see the way that other people did it. Because I think it helps not only inform like strategies for your own company, but then it it also allows you to to look at it and be like, do I want to do it this way?

00;26;46;01 - 00;26;51;06
Speaker 2
Do I want to change it up in some way, or do I need to like change it? You figure out a but yeah, it works for me.

00;26;51;06 - 00;27;17;12
Speaker 1
You get to see you also get to see the holes. There's two points here and I, you know, call back a little bit to 76 productions if you haven't heard that episode is another live action production studio that we work with. They're they're great people, but they touched on, you know, they come from that background and therefore the way they treat their employees, the way they treat their contractors is going to be entirely different than if it was someone who just came up with it, you know, from scratch, I want to make videos or whatever and I don't have any background.

00;27;17;18 - 00;27;19;12
Speaker 4
Quick question, hundred percent.

00;27;19;12 - 00;27;33;05
Speaker 2
Yeah. When you brought up the idea originally of like somebody coming and just saying, I want a video, I've noticed in the past that we have definitely had that and sound like one email into it that it's totally spam. Have you had this?

00;27;34;28 - 00;27;56;12
Speaker 4
I have had that happen and I followed up with them and we had like this whole interaction and it was a tell all of it was fake. And luckily, like my my wife sometimes works next to me in the in the in the space next to me. And so everyone's saw. I'm like, Hey, this guy wants this, but it seems fishy.

00;27;56;12 - 00;28;01;05
Speaker 4
And she's like, If you say it's fishy, it's definitely fishy.

00;28;01;05 - 00;28;02;18
Speaker 3
Like all the way. Yeah.

00;28;02;23 - 00;28;06;04
Speaker 4
And I'm always like, But it could be real. This could be a 10,000.

00;28;06;05 - 00;28;07;26
Speaker 3
Like $100,000 job.

00;28;07;29 - 00;28;09;07
Speaker 4
And she was like, No.

00;28;10;00 - 00;28;12;07
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;28;12;07 - 00;28;26;23
Speaker 2
But so yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. We're in such a strange place where like a lot of the interactions that I'm, I'm sure you've dealt with as well, like we, we've had projects that we've worked on where the only interaction we've worked on with the client has been through email the entire.

00;28;26;23 - 00;28;27;10
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's.

00;28;27;10 - 00;28;35;06
Speaker 2
Crazy. So like, yeah. And like and it's worked out fine and we've had recurring clients that way and everything and like I still to this day have never seen their face.

00;28;35;15 - 00;28;35;29
Speaker 3
So yeah.

00;28;36;03 - 00;28;48;16
Speaker 2
Aside from like, you know, their profile picture. So it's such an interesting space for us to be in that we have to also navigate somebody trying to just scam us for a piece of animation or a piece of video production.

00;28;48;16 - 00;28;52;23
Speaker 1
It sounds like that the the spam filter in your mind has to be on consistently.

00;28;52;23 - 00;28;53;18
Speaker 2
It does, yeah.

00;28;53;18 - 00;29;00;04
Speaker 1
Constantly like checking and like like figuring out do I trust this to not trust this? Yeah, I think it's going to scary, but I.

00;29;00;04 - 00;29;15;23
Speaker 2
Think that's why it it touches a little bit on the importance, which I think it sounds like you do as well, Alex, of like, you know, making sure you hop on a call with them to be like, let's talk about the project as opposed to just like everybody's all out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's really cool that you do.

00;29;15;23 - 00;29;36;19
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's funny you say that about not knowing who you're working for because I edited for like a few years full time pretty much. And it's really weird to edit video of somebody and feel like you're you get to know them entirely and you know what they look like and know who they are. And then every once in a while, I would run into them and be like, Oh my God.

00;29;37;18 - 00;29;39;06
Speaker 3
I'd like to know what to do. And be like.

00;29;39;15 - 00;29;41;02
Speaker 4
Oh, it's you. And it's like.

00;29;42;06 - 00;29;43;10
Speaker 3
And it's like, I know everything.

00;29;43;10 - 00;29;52;17
Speaker 4
About you. It's almost like a running into a celebrity. But it was so funny because I'd be like, Oh my God. And they're just like, It's just such an awkward interaction.

00;29;53;15 - 00;30;11;18
Speaker 2
But no, it's that's so interesting because I get that as an animator for sure. Like if I'm animating somebody that's recognizable or just somebody that I've like a CEO of a company, let's say it's not only that, like I know the person a little bit more, it's also that I understand how they move. Like I'm like, Oh, that thing you do with your fingers is great.

00;30;11;25 - 00;30;14;23
Speaker 3
You know, they're like, Oh, like, I think.

00;30;15;21 - 00;30;21;16
Speaker 1
A lot of times when I edit this podcast, I feel like I know our clients a little bit more because I get to see like.

00;30;21;16 - 00;30;21;26
Speaker 2
Right.

00;30;22;08 - 00;30;24;01
Speaker 3
Cool. Yeah. Yeah.

00;30;24;02 - 00;30;25;21
Speaker 1
I totally know what you, what you're doing.

00;30;25;21 - 00;30;29;15
Speaker 4
Yeah. And then you ask those awkward questions. It's like, Hey, how's Fluffy doing? I know.

00;30;29;15 - 00;30;30;26
Speaker 3
He's right. Say.

00;30;31;13 - 00;30;32;06
Speaker 4
Yeah. You're like.

00;30;32;11 - 00;30;35;20
Speaker 3
Wow.

00;30;35;20 - 00;30;40;13
Speaker 2
Right. Exactly. Yeah. What do they call that? Like a parasocial relationship almost.

00;30;40;17 - 00;30;41;07
Speaker 1
That sort of is.

00;30;41;08 - 00;30;42;07
Speaker 2
Through the editing room.

00;30;42;11 - 00;30;54;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Because you're you're in there, you're listening to them. Like you can listen to a podcast for a long, long, long time, feel like you know them, and then all of a sudden you meet them in real life and you're like, no, that's that's not where.

00;30;54;06 - 00;30;55;01
Speaker 3
Yeah. Or that's.

00;30;55;01 - 00;30;55;28
Speaker 1
A, you know, that's not yeah.

00;30;55;28 - 00;31;04;17
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. You also ever listen to a podcast and like you meet the podcast person in person and they sound completely different from their radio voice.

00;31;04;25 - 00;31;05;16
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's.

00;31;05;16 - 00;31;06;09
Speaker 4
A weird too.

00;31;07;11 - 00;31;08;03
Speaker 3
I put I kind.

00;31;08;03 - 00;31;08;15
Speaker 4
Of like a.

00;31;08;15 - 00;31;11;15
Speaker 1
Bass, I put a little more bass in my editing.

00;31;11;21 - 00;31;12;10
Speaker 2
You do?

00;31;12;10 - 00;31;17;13
Speaker 1
Because. Because I need to like, scream at the mic and.

00;31;19;18 - 00;31;21;02
Speaker 3
They're just so or they're.

00;31;21;14 - 00;31;22;19
Speaker 4
Always so relaxed.

00;31;23;27 - 00;31;24;16
Speaker 3
I think it's always.

00;31;24;17 - 00;31;44;19
Speaker 2
A nice compliment. So I wanted to ask a little bit about the animation lens because I know that like sometimes the projects that we get to, where we get to work and we get to collaborate is when you come to us with animation needs for either graphics packages or animation overlays or things of that nature, and we love being able to collaborate on that front.

00;31;44;28 - 00;32;05;21
Speaker 2
So I'm curious, I have, I guess, two questions. The first is like at what point in the production does a client come on and say, hey, we need animation or do they say it at all? And do you say, Oh, this would be an opportunity to use animation in this way? Like where does that where does it happen with in your conversations?

00;32;05;21 - 00;32;33;19
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I thought a long time about this and came to the conclusion it's basically whenever I say so yeah. It's just like if you going back to I hate to go back to this cost thing, but like if you have the extra money to spend, it's like 20 $500 on some extra editing to make this thing really pop and flare and integrate all this great animation that you guys do into my videos.

00;32;33;19 - 00;33;04;03
Speaker 4
It just like enhances them so much more. And yeah, depending on what we're doing. What was the last project we the last big one was tJo. tJo Animals. And that was a great project helping animals find homes, which was great. And we had a lot of statistics up on that. And so we were trying to figure out how we were going to effectively communicate just how many animals got adopted just this year and how many animals are kicked to the curb and how many animals need help.

00;33;04;14 - 00;33;16;23
Speaker 4
And we can give that to our viewer in a matter of seconds. With your exciting animation over something that looks good, like a little cat and a little kitten. How can you not watch that? Like.

00;33;17;07 - 00;33;17;18
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah.

00;33;17;18 - 00;33;19;27
Speaker 2
So kittens and motion hold.

00;33;19;27 - 00;33;22;07
Speaker 3
Yeah. Oh, our target.

00;33;22;09 - 00;33;24;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Now we're talking big bucks.

00;33;24;22 - 00;33;25;00
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;33;25;09 - 00;33;27;08
Speaker 4
I push that on all of my projects.

00;33;27;08 - 00;33;27;21
Speaker 3
Actually.

00;33;29;03 - 00;33;31;15
Speaker 1
All you need here is another cat. Yeah.

00;33;31;15 - 00;33;32;13
Speaker 3
Really? Yeah.

00;33;32;13 - 00;33;37;16
Speaker 2
That's what the project's been lacking this whole time. So I guess.

00;33;38;10 - 00;33;54;06
Speaker 4
It's really when you have one, it's hard spaces to create live content in hard projects to create live content for. And I'm trying to think of some examples. It doesn't happen too often for me specifically because people hire me as a shooter most of the time.

00;33;54;17 - 00;33;55;00
Speaker 3
Right.

00;33;55;09 - 00;34;18;02
Speaker 4
But yeah, it's super helpful when we are just in a creative rut and we can talk to you guys and say, All right, we're stuck here, how do we do this? And then you guys give us like four options and examples. Always examples are always good, by the way. Like I always ask for, if people want a video, I'm like, Shoot me an example of something that you liked.

00;34;18;02 - 00;34;28;23
Speaker 4
And we can just like kind of consider that in our production and why you liked it. You don't even have to tell why you liked it. I can be like, okay, this is why they liked it, right?

00;34;29;06 - 00;34;32;00
Speaker 1
I see that happening here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;34;32;01 - 00;34;36;24
Speaker 4
And so yeah, and I noticed that and that's why I feel like we work well together.

00;34;36;24 - 00;34;57;10
Speaker 2
So I was also going to ask you to kind of jump into that as well. Like at what point do you feel like animation is best introduced to a client? Are you telling them like right at the beginning that like, okay, you have the budget to be able to like utilize animation here and then you contact your vendors or collaborators, whoever it may be.

00;34;57;10 - 00;35;10;29
Speaker 2
Or do you find it's like sometimes in productions there are things that get tacked on towards the end, depending on the nature of the production. So I'm kind of curious how that works. And then like maybe we can get a little bit more technical about, you know, how that production side works.

00;35;11;15 - 00;35;11;24
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;35;11;24 - 00;35;15;03
Speaker 2
Like sometimes we come in at the edit, usually.

00;35;15;03 - 00;35;16;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, true.

00;35;16;07 - 00;35;38;27
Speaker 4
Yeah. Sometimes it's at the very beginning there is discussion about it and it's whether we're going to go through with it or not and most of the time we talk about it and then shoot and then edit and say, you know, this isn't really just isn't get it driving this home and we need to bring in what we talked about.

00;35;39;04 - 00;35;40;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Do you still need it?

00;35;40;06 - 00;35;41;10
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it makes.

00;35;41;10 - 00;35;43;23
Speaker 2
Like a switch that like. Yeah, it's like a little.

00;35;43;23 - 00;35;45;25
Speaker 3
Lever this of red button red.

00;35;46;01 - 00;35;46;16
Speaker 2
Animate.

00;35;47;05 - 00;35;52;09
Speaker 3
Animation or, you know. Yeah, the alarm sound, you know. Yeah, yeah.

00;35;52;18 - 00;35;53;10
Speaker 2
It's a whole thing.

00;35;53;16 - 00;36;16;12
Speaker 1
That makes sense because you're going, you know, it's very similar in animation when you go through like a script and a storyboard up until like an animatic, you'll be thinking about like, do we need these pieces parts? Do we need this character here? Do we take this out like we're still thinking about that up until then? So in live action, it totally makes sense that you go all the way up to edit and then say, Where do we need this here?

00;36;16;13 - 00;36;18;07
Speaker 2
Right? Can it be enhanced for sure?

00;36;18;08 - 00;36;37;22
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we always have ideas and it's like, nice to have ideas and it's nice to have you guys in our back pocket and say, Oh yeah, I can have these guys do that, no problem. And like, not have to worry about trying to create something myself or having like a buddy of mine do it, run a cheaper, you know, I'm not messing with that anymore.

00;36;37;22 - 00;36;38;19
Speaker 4
Maybe in college.

00;36;39;21 - 00;36;41;03
Speaker 3
But.

00;36;41;03 - 00;36;46;27
Speaker 2
But that comes from experience, right? It does come from having those moments. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Because we've been there as well.

00;36;46;28 - 00;36;48;12
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;36;48;20 - 00;37;06;10
Speaker 4
And I thought of an example. So like when I was trying to create in that a small project, we were trying to document the inside of an oven that heats up enough to melt pretty much any substance that you can think of into molten lava and like, Oh my God. And so.

00;37;06;26 - 00;37;07;00
Speaker 3
It's.

00;37;07;01 - 00;37;08;14
Speaker 2
An oven like that in my home.

00;37;09;13 - 00;37;11;12
Speaker 3
What's the dynamo happen? Right?

00;37;12;21 - 00;37;46;11
Speaker 4
It's like this here. You can walk into this thing. It's like it was humongous. And so it's like, how do we get one close enough so I can be, like, on a long lens and shoot from further away. But it's, it's like really hot and it's very limited. It's like what you can show. And so we talked about animating the inside of this oven and we had to learn about what's happening inside the oven and how how this happens and how it ventilate and why it why it makes why it's better than other ones and like and so that's just one example of like when animation definitely comes into it's good to have in your

00;37;46;11 - 00;37;46;28
Speaker 4
back pocket.

00;37;47;12 - 00;37;49;03
Speaker 2
Yeah that makes perfect sense.

00;37;49;03 - 00;38;00;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you see that multiple places like where we break down go through x ray, you know that connecting on products that is, is, yeah. That's where motion graphics really shines with live.

00;38;00;06 - 00;38;10;19
Speaker 2
Action, vice versa. I think there's times where, you know, we'll take a look at a script and we'll see what what they're trying to do in animation. And we'll say, you know, honestly, this this part here might be best served through.

00;38;10;19 - 00;38;10;27
Speaker 3
Through.

00;38;10;27 - 00;38;11;22
Speaker 2
Livexlive action.

00;38;11;23 - 00;38;23;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, actually, we just did a project recently where the, you know, the script called for It's Our People that set us apart, I think was like the line in the script. And we're like, we can't animate people.

00;38;24;00 - 00;38;24;18
Speaker 3
Like, it's.

00;38;24;18 - 00;38;41;28
Speaker 1
Not like if, if you're trying to connect to your audience and say, yes, it's our people. Like these are the people we need to show those people. Yeah. So yeah, had them like record something and send it to us because we it just sometimes animation is great for characters, but it's that's when you're telling like a very specific story, right?

00;38;42;02 - 00;38;48;01
Speaker 1
But when you're talking about a crew that actually exists in real life, these are the people you're going to be working with. You might as well shoot.

00;38;48;01 - 00;38;53;16
Speaker 2
Those, right? If you're going to see the people that you're working with, it's always better to to just. Exactly. So, yeah.

00;38;53;17 - 00;38;54;04
Speaker 4
Good call.

00;38;54;22 - 00;38;57;21
Speaker 2
Yeah, thanks. Thanks. We try.

00;38;57;21 - 00;38;57;28
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;38;57;28 - 00;39;17;06
Speaker 2
I mean I mean, that's what that's what it sounds like you're constantly doing in a way you like making certain judgment calls, sometimes on the fly, sometimes you prepared in advance. So I guess kind of an open question is like, how do you how do you navigate this space? That is, I want to say fluid in a lot of ways.

00;39;17;06 - 00;39;38;10
Speaker 2
I'm the type of person that's like I'm a planner, right? I want like everything prepared. And that comes from anxiety. That's just like I need to be humanly, you know, prepared as possible or whatever it might be. But it's the nature of our projects and productions that like things pivot and they turn. And so how do you how do you navigate those spaces where you have to kind of readjust on the fly.

00;39;38;12 - 00;39;43;29
Speaker 4
Like readjust in the production world or when it comes to graphic animation and design kind of stuff.

00;39;44;01 - 00;39;45;09
Speaker 2
That's it. I could say to.

00;39;45;10 - 00;39;46;07
Speaker 1
Either or.

00;39;46;07 - 00;39;47;00
Speaker 2
But what is more.

00;39;47;11 - 00;39;55;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm from for me I'd be, I'd be interested in like hearing a story about like crazy pivoting inside live action, like, because I know it happens all the time.

00;39;55;25 - 00;39;58;28
Speaker 3
So. Oh, yes, the side. Yes.

00;39;59;21 - 00;40;26;26
Speaker 4
You always plan and you always have a schedule and marks and you always try and do that. It just makes things run way smoother regardless of if you get those curveballs or not. Which will happen. But yeah, it does. It happens all the time. You just kind of roll with it and you have to look at it as an opportunity instead to get a different view of this thing or like have this unique thing happen.

00;40;26;26 - 00;40;45;18
Speaker 4
Then you want to capture it. And that's just like you can't plan for some of that stuff. Even like it would cost so much money to sometimes plan for these things. Like if you're filming on a railroad track and you need this guy to like pretend like he's leaving and shipping off, you're not going to hire a train.

00;40;45;18 - 00;41;04;22
Speaker 4
And well, I mean, you can, but it costs you like so much money, too. Yeah, some people do that, you know, but but if if that train just happens to be rolling through the station at that time or leaving, and your character is either arriving or entering, like, you know, that's value that you're rolling with and you're like, all right, audio is going to be total crap right now.

00;41;04;22 - 00;41;17;29
Speaker 4
Like, we got to figure this out. And it's very like, it's like, oh, like, but you have to just remain calm and use it as an opportunity. I'm trying to rack my brain on a good story. They're boring stories.

00;41;18;10 - 00;41;18;19
Speaker 1
Now.

00;41;18;19 - 00;41;26;14
Speaker 2
I know it's like, I imagine that probably happens when working with animals as well, kind of going back to the Yeah thing like animals are unpredictable. And so like.

00;41;27;01 - 00;41;32;07
Speaker 4
Here I thought of one so for live production at least here's a drone one for you.

00;41;32;28 - 00;41;33;28
Speaker 3
So I got hired.

00;41;33;28 - 00;41;35;27
Speaker 2
Okay. Yes. We wanted to hear the drone stories.

00;41;35;28 - 00;41;58;02
Speaker 4
This is like the best. This is the best. One of the coolest projects I've worked on so far. I was hired to fly a drone for four days off of a small 18 foot boat off the shore of Cape Cod. And we were with Greg Skomal, who is a great white shark expert over there, and they are part of the Great White Shark Conservancy.

00;41;58;14 - 00;42;23;20
Speaker 4
And it was a special for Shark Week. And we were literally hunting these great white sharks, like not killing them, but like we were tagging them. And so we would have to get close enough to tag a shark and put a little beacon on them and. We can mark and find them. And you can just like go through this app and you see where they are and they installed boogie's in the water to tell you exactly where they are.

00;42;23;20 - 00;42;32;07
Speaker 4
And so like when there are sharks coming close to the beaches, they can say, all right, everybody out of the water. Like no big deal. We got Bertha coming through because they name all of them and like.

00;42;32;29 - 00;42;33;05
Speaker 3
That's.

00;42;34;10 - 00;42;55;23
Speaker 4
And so I was flying the drone for that and it's, it's yeah, some of the weather was just like very difficult to fly in, especially on a boat that's just like going up and down and all around. And it's a small boat and I'm flying a big drone because they wanted the higher quality and it was like so intense but so cool.

00;42;55;23 - 00;43;07;01
Speaker 4
Like, I was, I was like four feet away from great white sharks and they're like, that's eating whales. Like, there was a dead whale one day. They were just like feasting on it. We were having a field day, like.

00;43;07;03 - 00;43;07;27
Speaker 3
Wow.

00;43;07;28 - 00;43;13;22
Speaker 2
Wow. That's like, that's a once in a lifetime experience. Yeah. When you get to like experience that type of stuff. Yeah, that's very cool.

00;43;14;01 - 00;43;31;14
Speaker 4
And so there was a whale that was floating off the shore, and that was an example of like, Oh my God, this doesn't happen very often. And, and they know as experts, like, we got to get over there immediately before one news crews got there, before the whale watchers get there. We got to stop what we're doing and get over there immediately.

00;43;31;14 - 00;43;48;15
Speaker 4
And we literally like found a guy, hired his boat because it was like we had to cut across the land part of it because we couldn't go all the way around because it would take too long. So we got off the boat across the land, hired this guy on the spot to drive us in a boat to this whale.

00;43;48;15 - 00;43;59;06
Speaker 4
And we got footage all alone before the helicopters started coming. And, like, and we got, like, all these sharks just like, like, chicken chops out of this blubber. It was so cool.

00;43;59;27 - 00;44;03;27
Speaker 2
That's awesome. You know, this sounds like a like a whale.

00;44;04;25 - 00;44;06;13
Speaker 3
Like, I think I don't.

00;44;06;14 - 00;44;16;12
Speaker 2
Like of its nature, you know? Yeah. But I think at this, at the same time, it's like this reminds me for some reason of like a Fast and the Furious movie, like, we got to get over there before.

00;44;16;22 - 00;44;16;24
Speaker 3
The.

00;44;16;25 - 00;44;17;15
Speaker 2
Time runs.

00;44;17;15 - 00;44;20;10
Speaker 3
Out at all. Yeah, right, right.

00;44;21;02 - 00;44;23;01
Speaker 1
Oh, the whales like my thing.

00;44;24;15 - 00;44;25;13
Speaker 3
Oh, the whale.

00;44;25;13 - 00;44;28;16
Speaker 4
Was dead when I was already deceased. It was just.

00;44;28;18 - 00;44;31;20
Speaker 1
Oh, man. So it could have been alive.

00;44;31;21 - 00;44;33;16
Speaker 3
Who knows? Yeah, it was an interesting.

00;44;35;01 - 00;44;53;20
Speaker 2
Interesting experience, though. I mean, that's that's part of like just I think the the nature of, like, our, our can be so all over the place, right? You can have all these types of different experiences with different people. You have these awesome stories to share when you get home at the end of the day or I guess when you get off of your chair at the end of the day, you.

00;44;53;22 - 00;44;54;17
Speaker 3
Were like like.

00;44;55;24 - 00;44;58;14
Speaker 2
But it's, it's very cool. So yeah. Thank you for sharing.

00;44;58;15 - 00;45;08;23
Speaker 1
That's yeah, yeah, that's true. I think we're going to I don't think we're going to top that with stories. Yeah, but yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. In the interest of time, I think. Yeah, that's yeah, we have.

00;45;08;23 - 00;45;16;09
Speaker 2
One last question. Where can people find you? How can they reach you if they want to be able to follow up and email you and say, have a video and then.

00;45;16;13 - 00;45;22;03
Speaker 1
Or if they're going to say like, you know, I'm missing a whale to go find.

00;45;22;03 - 00;45;22;09
Speaker 3
It.

00;45;23;00 - 00;45;24;08
Speaker 1
My pet whale or.

00;45;25;00 - 00;45;25;20
Speaker 3
The whales are.

00;45;25;20 - 00;45;28;22
Speaker 4
Hard. The sharks, I can help you find them.

00;45;29;04 - 00;45;30;13
Speaker 3
Yeah. So.

00;45;31;12 - 00;45;49;16
Speaker 4
Yeah, the best place to contact me is on my website. Herald Productions dot com. And I also use Instagram a lot and Facebook and it's the same thing, just terrible productions right on there. You can fill out my questionnaire if you'd like, or you could just give me a call and I'm happy to talk.

00;45;50;08 - 00;45;50;26
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00;45;51;13 - 00;46;01;09
Speaker 2
That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time. This was really appreciate it. This is a lot of fun and I hope we get to do another part too in the future. So definitely be in touch.

00;46;01;21 - 00;46;03;11
Speaker 4
Yeah, that'll be fun. Thanks, guys.

00;46;03;13 - 00;46;04;17
Speaker 2
Awesome. Thank you.

00;46;04;20 - 00;46;24;23
Speaker 1
That.