038 - POVs - Financial Transparency
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That's the whole idea.
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Like, the only reason you're hiring me
is because you have a different goal.
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You have a much more broader.
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Here's what I'm trying to do to this
audience are here's what I'm trying to say
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or here's what I'm trying to accomplish.
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Let's help you get there.
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Hello, everybody.
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Welcome back.
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On this glorious day of which I don't know
which day
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you're watching
or listening to this podcast on.
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So happy
whatever day you're celebrating today.
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Happy days to you.
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Happy days to you.
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Totally there.
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This is behind the pixel
and Open Pixel podcast
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where we try to bridge
the communication gap between those
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who buy creative content
and those who make it now.
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Hey, that's not bad.
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That's better than I thought
you were going to do.
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I'm on it. 24 seven.
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You know,
I live, eat and breathe this podcast.
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That's not true at all.
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I have a very healthy boundary.
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So today's episode is kind of
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similar to an episode
we had previously where we kind of,
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in a way, riffed a little bit,
reacted to a particular post that we saw
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and kind of tried to give some insight
and some advice on the back
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end about different ways
to approach that particular situation.
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I think in the feed,
I think we called it an opinion episode.
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That's what I tagged it as.
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So every once in a while we'll do that
and there will still be some hacks
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and B wipes and things like that.
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But this is just a way to sort of fill
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in the times when we're busy
and don't have that much time to prep.
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Well,
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sure.
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I guess that touches a little bit
on the subject of today's topic as well.
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Okay.
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Just in the idea of,
well, we'll get into it.
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Let's let's just jump in. Okay.
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So you ready?
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Do you have any other plugs
or any other things you want to get to?
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I got a haircut.
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I was going to leave it long,
but I go, okay, I cut it a little bit.
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I just, you know,
I was getting a little too lazy.
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Well, you looking real fly over there, so.
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Great. Thank you.
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Just in time for a podcast recording.
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Okay.
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For context, Will has not heard this yet.
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Maybe you've seen the post.
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I don't know. Maybe I don't know.
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But yeah, I think we're going to hear
potentially your reaction here.
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But I'll read it word for word.
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For the sake of I guess, anonymity
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and anonymity, I won't anonymously.
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I won't reveal the
the person's name who wrote this?
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Yeah, we're going to
we're going to keep these anon.
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Yeah. No.
I think that's what the kids say.
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I'm pretty sure that's what they were.
Still so happy.
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Okay, here we go.
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I wonder why
small agencies and freelancers
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post about how much money they make.
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Is this a credibility thing?
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Is it to inspire people?
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I guess the quote
my year break down, unquote
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angle of this sort of spins
it as maybe educational.
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I was always taught to be low key
about that stuff.
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Not to mention, I saw some big numbers
that made me question my life.
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I'm genuinely curious
about the motivation behind it.
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Do you have any insights?
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Please respond within 10 minutes.
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Devil Emoji.
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So I think that yes, I think
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that was a callback to the other post
that was Please respond in 10 minutes.
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That's hilarious. Yes.
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Okay.
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That post
made some really big rounds, huh?
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It really did. It really. Did. Right.
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So the idea, the reason
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why I brought this particular topic up
just for some context, is that
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in our company currently,
we were just going through
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reevaluating our values
and what we want our company to stand for.
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And one of the things that came up for us
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was transparency
and transparent information.
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We kind of tied that a little more
related to the information
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that is shared through our campaigns
and through our messaging.
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Yeah, the work. The work. The work itself.
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Yeah.
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But, you know, it can also apply
to this idea of being more transparent
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as a community and as an industry in terms
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of sharing our financial information.
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So I kind of wanted
to get your take on it.
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I have a feeling it's going to be a little
bit different than how I feel about it.
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But yeah, any initial reactions
or thoughts?
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My initial reaction was like,
That's a great point.
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I actually had the same feeling
when I've seen those posts.
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So for those of you who don't know,
maybe aren't as active,
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maybe on LinkedIn, I don't personally
have seen them on LinkedIn
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because yeah, because I
that's the platform I use mostly, although
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I am getting an Instagram.
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Oh, there's the plug, you know.
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What do I think?
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I think I think transparency is great.
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I am all for transparency
and I think it's your
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I think it's your right to talk about
your numbers if you really wanted to.
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I think one of the things
inside of our industry as like artists or,
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you know, VFX is slightly different,
but kind of in the same boat.
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It's the artists doing the work
behind the scenes.
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And oftentimes the the people
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running the show,
the people who are owners like us or,
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you know, big giant corporation executives
that have boards and things like that.
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They, in my opinion,
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are are structured
so that information doesn't spread.
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Right.
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And there's been a lot of other things
that pop up legally,
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like I think in New York now, it's illegal
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to ask about your prior pay
or something like that.
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There's like laws and.
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Ask for your. Pay.
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And if you're. Interviewing for a job.
Yeah.
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Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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During interviews. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
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So, you know,
I think it's I think it's part of today's
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sharing generation of being like, hey,
this is what I make and this is how
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this is how I made that.
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And I think that there is some value
to that as a as a fellow freelancer,
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someone who's probably doing
something very similar.
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You might feel like that's a really good
insight into how they did it.
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You know,
how do they make that much money?
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And if they broke it down
by like client type, I've seen that.
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I've seen some like, here's my lowest
and here's my highest paying job.
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You might not feel so alone in trying
to figure out, did I make a lot of money?
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Did I not make a lot of money?
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Like, why was it so low this year
or high this year or whatever?
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Like, I think that's a good thing.
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Like,
I think sharing your numbers is fine.
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Honestly,
I think I'm coming to that conclusion.
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I can see why it would make you question
your life choices
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because some artists
make way more than other artists.
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And and, you know, we run a studio,
we make probably more than a singular
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artist.
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So, like, you know, there's
there's different reasons for that.
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And we could break down those reasons.
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There's,
you know, obviously artistic skill,
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but also the clients that you hold,
there's also like
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your level of communication
with the client.
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How well you communicate
is is a really big factor.
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And I've heard it in a lot of podcasts
and a lot of places where like
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the communication is actually primary
secondary to like the artistic work.
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So a lot of folks try to like artistic
work is like
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it's still super important, but
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it's not as important
as being able to communicate clearly,
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understand the problem, figure out
how your artwork is going to benefit
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their pipeline or their workflow
and the end result of the piece right?
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And this I'm just talking about animators,
not necessarily designers or,
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you know, it's a different workflow
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or approach depending on what
type of artistic work you do.
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So yeah, I think it's a good thing.
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Honestly,
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I do.
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I do see why it might be
harsh and jarring, and I think
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there is another thing in there
in that post that said, like
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I was taught to like keep this low key.
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Yeah, I think that that is Yeah.
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That's like bad. Yeah.
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Right. That, that, that. It's.
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Kind of like Yeah that gives me vibes of
like don't talk about your feelings
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kind of or don't you know
don't bring up a certain thing
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that's going on in your life
because it might be seen as like whatever.
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Keeping stuff in is never good.
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And I think part of don't talk about money
or keep money to yourself
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or anything like that.
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Now, that said, do
I feel like sharing my numbers?
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No, not necessarily,
because no one is asking me about it.
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Yeah, No one is asking me about it.
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And I also I
you know, I just don't want to.
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Yeah, this is where the idea of
this is where I knew you would.
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You would take it.
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Because I know that, like,
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as a company, we have not shared
our financial information.
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We have not.
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I think it would depend on the intention
behind it.
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Some of the comments that I saw
were On the one hand, you're talking about
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the idea of like deconstructing
that idea of everyone
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needs to keep their finances closed
and not share anything else.
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So that, you know, it's
we're more competitive
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or less or whatever,
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whatever that reason might be,
which I agree
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with the idea of deconstructing this
and being able to openly share
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this is what we're making in my
but then there's also this idea of like
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depending on in a way,
what your actual numbers are.
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It could be seen as a form of clout,
like you're trying to say, like,
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look how great we did this year, you know,
And it really depends on
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how you're talking about it,
how you're framing it,
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like what the intention
or the goal is behind sharing.
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There's something to be acknowledged there
that I support the idea
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of talking about,
like even open pixels finances.
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We might disagree on that side,
but I believe in that idea of saying
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this is why it's important to share it
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as opposed to just saying,
okay, everyone's doing a year end
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review, Here's my year end review,
which is, which is different,
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I think, than than stating
this is what somebody could learn from it.
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Yeah, I think that's what's missing for me
from that kind of post.
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Like there's
no teaching there necessarily. There are.
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There have been some that
that I mean, again,
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I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's like what
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your intention and what your messaging
is behind that type of post.
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I think, you know, if you frame it around
the education, this is how I got here.
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I did this, I did this
like you should do the same thing
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or something similar
that might be more helpful
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than just like, here are my numbers
because I think here my numbers kind of
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miscues it towards,
Hey, look at me, this is what I did.
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And like
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maybe there's a you could do it too
but that yeah yeah.
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You need the how right like how you need.
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To how. How you got there. Yeah.
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Mm hmm.
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Yeah.
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And then the other thing too, is that I.
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I don't want to derail the idea
that you're an artist because of money.
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Like, there's a,
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you know, there's a form of, like, hey,
this is how much money I made.
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You should be making
that same amount of dollars.
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And that's not necessarily true
because the type of artwork or the type
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of topics or the type of passions
that you have aren't the same.
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They're not going to be the same,
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and your artistic skills
aren't going to be the same.
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So I think that there's yeah, there's
like a form of separation where like,
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I don't want to just,
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you know, send people off and say, here's
my here's our numbers.
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If you're a small student,
you should be doing these numbers too.
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Now it's like we focus on X, Y, Z,
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and this is how we got here.
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And that's maybe something you could do
if you tweak that formula a bit, you know?
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Right, Right.
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No, that's very true.
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Yeah.
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I think if we do talk about our numbers,
I'd want to think about it
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from the perspective of why
we're also choosing those numbers.
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Not necessarily.
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And I don't even know if it's necessary
to say, here's what we make.
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I think it's for me, it's more important
to maybe share.
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Here's what we charge
and here's why we charge it.
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And here's like
because I think that's a different model.
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If I came out and said, Oh, I made,
you know, $100,000 this year,
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but my situation, like you were
saying, is very different from yours.
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Right?
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That's a that's a different angle
than saying, here's what we charge,
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here's why we charge it, and here's
how you can think about charging either
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similar rates or different rates
depending on your circumstances.
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What is in that that changes
the entire type of a post, right?
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I know.
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I think that's that
that's the other thing is like if you're
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if you're going to do a year and numbers
review post,
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then then you're expected to be like,
here's my numbers.
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And then like, that's it. That's the post.
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That's why we didn't really do one,
because that's not necessarily
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what's helpful.
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I think, you know, being helpful
online is kind of.
00;13;12;01 - 00;13;13;25
I guess it depends. Yeah. Yeah.
00;13;13;25 - 00;13;17;13
That's in the that's in the post straight
because like does it.
00;13;17;13 - 00;13;21;06
In the eye of the
it's. In the eye of the post,
00;13;21;09 - 00;13;24;07
eye of the post beholder or whatever
whatever you call it.
00;13;24;07 - 00;13;25;14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;13;25;14 - 00;13;29;03
I think because there are people out there
who have definitely done
00;13;29;05 - 00;13;32;20
really detailed breakdowns
and have continued
00;13;32;20 - 00;13;36;29
to also provide resources
to creatives and freelancers about the
00;13;36;29 - 00;13;41;06
how maybe, you know, because you,
you can't do it all in one post.
00;13;41;09 - 00;13;43;04
That's, that's the thing about it too.
00;13;43;04 - 00;13;45;03
Yeah. You do have a limit.
Yeah that's. True. Yeah.
00;13;45;03 - 00;13;49;03
So you might have a numbers in review post
but then also continue to post.
00;13;49;03 - 00;13;50;20
Here's how we got there.
00;13;50;20 - 00;13;52;29
Here's
what our goals are for next quarter.
00;13;52;29 - 00;13;56;10
Like that
I think is not a bad thing at all.
00;13;56;10 - 00;13;58;14
I think that's a great thing to do.
00;13;58;14 - 00;14;01;14
And then yeah, the other thing
I want to tie this back to like
00;14;01;14 - 00;14;04;10
clients and, and communication
folks, right?
00;14;04;10 - 00;14;06;24
Like so nonprofits,
00;14;06;24 - 00;14;11;29
if you're a nonprofit listening,
your numbers are disclosed automatically.
00;14;12;02 - 00;14;14;04
They're publicly available.
00;14;14;04 - 00;14;16;01
Yeah, you're publicly available.
00;14;16;01 - 00;14;19;27
You can go and see how much money
someone spent an organization
00;14;19;27 - 00;14;22;16
spent on marketing or communications.
00;14;22;16 - 00;14;25;01
You could go
and see how much money they made total,
00;14;25;01 - 00;14;28;28
how many dollars in the bank,
like that's it's already there.
00;14;28;29 - 00;14;31;22
A lot of people don't look one
because they don't know where to look
00;14;31;22 - 00;14;34;27
but to because you know
who's really paying attention
00;14;34;27 - 00;14;36;28
when they have their own problems
kind of thing.
00;14;36;28 - 00;14;39;24
So like, that's one version of it.
00;14;39;24 - 00;14;43;13
The other version is publicly held
companies, right?
00;14;43;13 - 00;14;46;27
They have disclosures of similar things.
00;14;46;27 - 00;14;48;10
If you listen to like Yahoo!
00;14;48;10 - 00;14;51;15
Finance, every so often they're like,
you know,
00;14;51;18 - 00;14;55;22
Tesla had X amount of dollars
last quarter, you know, whatever, whatever
00;14;55;22 - 00;14;58;22
in the earnings meeting they talked about,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00;14;58;22 - 00;15;01;28
So all of that, the numbers are disclosed.
00;15;01;28 - 00;15;05;26
It's just you might not be in those
circles listening to those dollar amounts.
00;15;05;26 - 00;15;09;04
And so as an artist,
I guess if you're listening to this,
00;15;09;07 - 00;15;12;01
you're saying, okay, well,
maybe you didn't know that.
00;15;12;01 - 00;15;13;08
I don't know.
00;15;13;08 - 00;15;15;27
That might be something
to think about as a private company.
00;15;15;27 - 00;15;19;00
Those are the only ones that I think
don't have disclosures.
00;15;19;02 - 00;15;23;28
One of the things that clients do that
that is also on the side of,
00;15;23;28 - 00;15;29;01
you know, transparency or not
transparency is coming up with budgets
00;15;29;04 - 00;15;31;26
which are set somewhere.
00;15;31;26 - 00;15;34;19
I know they are
because I know it works, right?
00;15;34;19 - 00;15;36;11
If you're a marketer,
you've set the budget for the year
00;15;36;11 - 00;15;39;29
probably in January
or in Q1 or Q4 of last year
00;15;40;02 - 00;15;45;00
and you know how much money you have
and then you say, well, we have a project.
00;15;45;02 - 00;15;47;27
Here's the thing and
00;15;47;29 - 00;15;48;22
tell me what it costs.
00;15;48;22 - 00;15;49;11
What's your budget?
00;15;49;11 - 00;15;51;22
I don't know yet. Just tell me what it is.
00;15;51;22 - 00;15;52;11
You see what I mean?
00;15;52;11 - 00;15;56;12
Like there's a level of like dishonesty
there
00;15;56;15 - 00;16;00;06
that that happens and that's that like,
I guess is okay because you're trying
00;16;00;06 - 00;16;02;05
to get the best deal,
like you're incentivized
00;16;02;05 - 00;16;04;25
as an organization
to get the best deal possible.
00;16;04;25 - 00;16;08;26
Yeah, but you can say that that happens
with companies and freelancers too, right?
00;16;08;26 - 00;16;10;16
Because they're. Oh, Oh. Yeah, yeah.
00;16;10;16 - 00;16;11;05
That's what I'm talking about.
00;16;11;05 - 00;16;13;24
If you come at a freelancer
and you're like, Hey, what's your rate?
00;16;13;24 - 00;16;17;14
Versus like, I think a lot of times
when we come at it, we usually say like,
00;16;17;21 - 00;16;21;27
here's what our project budget is and
like, here's what we can work with then.
00;16;21;29 - 00;16;25;25
And then also saying like, we want to hire
you for the rate that you have.
00;16;25;29 - 00;16;29;29
And if they ever ask why, I usually
break it down really deeply.
00;16;30;02 - 00;16;32;24
Yeah, I feel like there's that level
00;16;32;24 - 00;16;36;12
of transparency that has to happen
within the organizations too.
00;16;36;12 - 00;16;36;24
You're right.
00;16;36;24 - 00;16;39;23
Within the client,
you know, vendor relationship
00;16;39;23 - 00;16;43;22
and within the studio freelancer
relationship for sure.
00;16;43;25 - 00;16;44;05
Yeah.
00;16;44;05 - 00;16;47;05
And if a client comes to you
and says, like,
00;16;47;11 - 00;16;49;22
I have this project, what's the budget?
00;16;49;22 - 00;16;52;05
I don't know. Tell me what it will cost.
00;16;52;05 - 00;16;54;26
And to me, I kind of want to say, Well,
00;16;54;26 - 00;16;58;18
I don't know what it will cost
to tell me what your budget is like.
00;16;58;23 - 00;17;00;18
There's a level of pushback.
00;17;00;18 - 00;17;02;26
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know what's your budget?
00;17;02;26 - 00;17;06;13
And then this is, this is where I think
that value based pricing comes in.
00;17;06;13 - 00;17;10;20
Well, what's your goal
and how are you trying to get there?
00;17;10;22 - 00;17;12;01
Let's help you get there.
00;17;12;01 - 00;17;14;18
And you pay me 10% of getting there.
00;17;14;18 - 00;17;16;26
And you know, what's that cost to you?
00;17;16;26 - 00;17;19;05
What is it worth to you to do this thing?
00;17;19;05 - 00;17;21;27
And I think that that's a it's a
it's a much better model.
00;17;21;27 - 00;17;25;24
I'm not saying we practice it here, but
having that conversation is very important
00;17;25;24 - 00;17;29;08
and just taking the leap to say like,
Hey, again, for marketers, communication
00;17;29;08 - 00;17;33;10
people, nonprofits, people who are
in the buying position here expect that
00;17;33;15 - 00;17;38;11
to come at some point from more people
because that's the whole idea.
00;17;38;11 - 00;17;41;23
Like the only reason you're hiring me
is because you have a different goal.
00;17;41;23 - 00;17;47;14
You have a much more broader here's what
I'm trying to do to these this audience.
00;17;47;14 - 00;17;50;13
So here's what I'm trying to say or here's
what I'm trying to accomplish.
00;17;50;13 - 00;17;52;17
Let's help you get there, right?
00;17;52;17 - 00;17;56;00
Let's help
you get to that place. Rather than saying
00;17;56;02 - 00;17;59;00
what are the dollars and cents
that are going to get us to this place.
00;17;59;00 - 00;17;59;11
Yeah.
00;17;59;11 - 00;18;01;13
So I'm totally with you on the value based
00;18;01;13 - 00;18;05;14
pricing side and right for that
for our transparency sake, we
00;18;05;17 - 00;18;08;06
we use a day rate currently,
which is a little bit different.
00;18;08;06 - 00;18;12;00
We use a day rate on a sliding scale
depending on the type of project,
00;18;12;00 - 00;18;15;01
the style type,
which I think we've talked about
00;18;15;01 - 00;18;18;22
so many times
and yet no one really gets it.
00;18;18;24 - 00;18;20;01
Style type changes.
00;18;20;01 - 00;18;23;27
It's really, for us, a four quadrant style
type thing.
00;18;23;29 - 00;18;25;15
I. Like, I could reveal.
00;18;25;15 - 00;18;26;21
For another day.
00;18;26;21 - 00;18;27;17
You know, as I go out.
00;18;27;17 - 00;18;29;16
Okay. Yeah,
we should know. We should. I have.
00;18;29;16 - 00;18;31;10
That's a. Tease. That's a tease.
00;18;31;10 - 00;18;35;26
For a future conversation.
00;18;35;29 - 00;18;36;08
Yeah.
00;18;36;08 - 00;18;38;08
No, it's an interesting topic.
I mean, I think don't.
00;18;38;08 - 00;18;40;01
I don't think
I would actually ever disclose
00;18;40;01 - 00;18;43;06
my numbers, honestly,
because every year is different.
00;18;43;09 - 00;18;47;18
Every year is like it's super high or
super low and like, it's a rollercoaster.
00;18;47;21 - 00;18;49;25
It's a roller coaster
00;18;49;25 - 00;18;52;10
financially, when you own a business.
00;18;52;10 - 00;18;53;02
So I also.
00;18;53;02 - 00;18;54;01
Want to acknowledge there
00;18;54;01 - 00;18;57;10
that that might also depend
on your financial structure, right?
00;18;57;10 - 00;18;59;19
In our case, I'm I'm happy to share that.
00;18;59;19 - 00;19;04;21
Like we basically bootstrap everything
so we don't have investors,
00;19;04;21 - 00;19;08;20
we don't have loans,
we don't have debt, which is a wonderful.
00;19;08;22 - 00;19;11;10
We have we have a tiny bit of debt
because we have a credit card.
00;19;11;10 - 00;19;12;11
But that's true.
00;19;12;11 - 00;19;15;25
Yeah, but that's
but that's like our personal choice
00;19;15;25 - 00;19;18;01
in terms of how we manage our finances.
00;19;18;01 - 00;19;22;24
And so I think it's probably where I feel
the need to share
00;19;22;24 - 00;19;26;05
transparency is on that front to tell
people like
00;19;26;05 - 00;19;29;05
these are the different types
of financial models you can get into.
00;19;29;10 - 00;19;34;23
Here are the pros and cons of it
and you know, as owners, I think it's also
00;19;34;25 - 00;19;38;24
I think it's also important
to like this dynamic right here of like
00;19;38;27 - 00;19;42;04
I would personally be comfortable
sharing our numbers
00;19;42;11 - 00;19;44;02
and Will's not as comfortable.
00;19;44;02 - 00;19;48;13
Like, it's
my responsibility as an owner and a leader
00;19;48;13 - 00;19;52;21
and somebody who respects Will
to also be mindful of his boundaries here.
00;19;52;23 - 00;19;55;21
And so like
if you don't see if you don't see a post
00;19;55;21 - 00;19;57;29
about us sharing our numbers,
you can just blame Will.
00;19;57;29 - 00;19;58;29
That's really.
00;19;58;29 - 00;20;01;21
Oh, wow, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
00;20;01;21 - 00;20;03;09
Firing the shots?
00;20;03;09 - 00;20;05;04
No, no, I think it's more.
00;20;05;04 - 00;20;06;02
No, that's fine. Blame me.
00;20;06;02 - 00;20;06;12
No, no.
00;20;06;12 - 00;20;07;01
Absolutely.
00;20;07;01 - 00;20;09;25
I will take no,
but there is something to that.
00;20;09;25 - 00;20;14;01
I don't think we talk about a lot
in terms of like owners having
00;20;14;07 - 00;20;16;07
and this is
I think we should get into this more.
00;20;16;07 - 00;20;19;27
But just the idea that like as owners,
you might have differing opinions
00;20;19;27 - 00;20;24;15
and how you go about making decisions
is going to be reliant on
00;20;24;18 - 00;20;28;19
where you both trust each other,
where you both like are comfortable,
00;20;28;19 - 00;20;32;03
where you're both like, this is a boundary
and I'm not going to cross it.
00;20;32;03 - 00;20;33;12
Like, you know what I mean?
00;20;33;12 - 00;20;35;07
There's
just there's something to that, too.
00;20;35;07 - 00;20;38;07
I think there's a different dynamic
from sharing your numbers when you're
00;20;38;07 - 00;20;43;26
an individual versus
your like in a multi person company
00;20;43;29 - 00;20;47;27
in terms of founding and like investor
structure and all that kind of stuff.
00;20;47;27 - 00;20;48;29
Yeah, that's a good point.
00;20;48;29 - 00;20;51;19
As it as an individual,
you can just share whatever you want.
00;20;51;19 - 00;20;54;26
One thing that it just reminded me
when you're talking
00;20;54;29 - 00;20;57;11
is the one of the bigger reasons.
00;20;57;11 - 00;20;59;05
I think that I don't want
to share my numbers or
00;20;59;05 - 00;21;03;11
our numbers is because of the posts
that you just brought up.
00;21;03;11 - 00;21;06;11
Like the fact that you like
this person's like,
00;21;06;17 - 00;21;09;17
it made me question
everything about my life.
00;21;09;23 - 00;21;14;05
I don't want to cause that, you know,
that emotional pain to someone online.
00;21;14;05 - 00;21;17;02
I don't want I like
I don't want to be the source of like,
00;21;17;02 - 00;21;22;20
you know, jealousy or sadness or whatever
for this other person on the other end.
00;21;22;20 - 00;21;24;12
Like, that's just not what I want to do.
00;21;24;12 - 00;21;28;24
So, you know, I could see how a post
like that could lead there very easily,
00;21;28;24 - 00;21;32;00
very quickly to be like,
Oh my God, I've been doing animation for,
00;21;32;03 - 00;21;33;19
you know, 20 years.
00;21;33;19 - 00;21;35;11
And this person who just started
00;21;35;11 - 00;21;37;27
is making ten times
more than I've ever made in my life.
00;21;37;27 - 00;21;39;08
Like, that's that's huge.
00;21;39;08 - 00;21;40;24
Like, you know, I don't know.
00;21;40;24 - 00;21;45;29
It's yeah, social media
is a very easy place to kind of
00;21;46;02 - 00;21;49;13
start feeling that self-doubt and
that insecurity about what you're doing.
00;21;49;13 - 00;21;51;17
So I totally get where you're coming from.
00;21;51;17 - 00;21;55;16
I think that I will say
to those who who do post
00;21;55;16 - 00;21;59;14
and are transparent about their numbers,
I say, more power to you if you like.
00;21;59;18 - 00;22;02;03
You know,
if you're educating along the way
00;22;02;03 - 00;22;04;20
and you're teaching people
how to do it, like awesome.
00;22;04;20 - 00;22;07;13
I think we're happy
to support on that front.
00;22;07;13 - 00;22;11;08
And so I think, you know, sure, maybe I'm
speaking on behalf of both of us,
00;22;11;08 - 00;22;14;13
but I feel like I'd want to join in
00;22;14;13 - 00;22;18;15
on that conversation
of at least the education aspect of.
00;22;18;15 - 00;22;21;14
It, of the how. Yeah, of the how for sure.
00;22;21;14 - 00;22;21;22
Yeah.
00;22;21;22 - 00;22;26;11
That's the that's where
I can stretch to you and compromise on.
00;22;26;13 - 00;22;26;19
Yeah.
00;22;26;19 - 00;22;28;12
One of the numbers. Yeah.
00;22;28;12 - 00;22;32;13
The other thing that's in my head too
is that like you know our industry again
00;22;32;18 - 00;22;35;18
artists working
behind the scenes making it happen.
00;22;35;24 - 00;22;39;07
There have been several times in history
00;22;39;07 - 00;22;42;13
where in history in our recent history
00;22;42;15 - 00;22;47;07
that we're all sharing our numbers on
like a Google sheet.
00;22;47;10 - 00;22;48;27
Yeah, the. Spreadsheet, Google Drive.
00;22;48;27 - 00;22;52;05
Doc Yeah, there's so many that I've been
I have a whole air table
00;22;52;05 - 00;22;55;23
of like people's salaries
and like, anonymously.
00;22;55;23 - 00;22;59;11
But you know how much people make
at Nickelodeon or how much people
00;22;59;11 - 00;23;02;17
make and, you know,
all these other big, large studios.
00;23;02;17 - 00;23;05;17
You know, there's a big spreadsheet
out there that like, yeah, you can.
00;23;05;18 - 00;23;08;05
And the numbers are wildly different.
00;23;08;05 - 00;23;09;24
They literally, yeah, entirely different.
00;23;09;24 - 00;23;14;24
And so creating that transparency
will also lead to maybe more conversations
00;23;14;24 - 00;23;19;03
like this, more conversations about,
you know, what are people making and why?
00;23;19;07 - 00;23;20;27
Why is it so different?
00;23;20;27 - 00;23;25;17
You know, how come females are making
less, Why're minorities making less?
00;23;25;19 - 00;23;27;26
Why are you know,
00;23;27;28 - 00;23;30;17
how come one person who's been in
the industry
00;23;30;17 - 00;23;32;05
is making way more than this person?
00;23;32;05 - 00;23;34;18
Like there are different answers to that.
00;23;34;18 - 00;23;38;08
Some of them are great and acceptable and
some of them are not acceptable at all.
00;23;38;08 - 00;23;38;17
Yeah.
00;23;38;17 - 00;23;41;09
Why is there a job application
for an AA role?
00;23;41;09 - 00;23;43;22
That's $1,000,000 a year.
00;23;43;22 - 00;23;45;05
Million dollar AA role?
00;23;45;05 - 00;23;49;07
Yeah, I wanted to segment that,
but that just it's not going to work out
00;23;49;07 - 00;23;50;09
for me. I'm also.
00;23;50;09 - 00;23;53;00
Yeah, I think I.
00;23;53;00 - 00;23;54;29
Oh God, I don't think.
00;23;54;29 - 00;23;57;26
I don't think we could ever work together
if you did.
00;23;57;26 - 00;24;00;19
You know, I would just type away
my creative thoughts.
00;24;00;19 - 00;24;01;23
Oh boy.
00;24;01;23 - 00;24;04;12
That's a that's a topic for another day.
00;24;04;12 - 00;24;06;07
Let me just type in my creative thoughts.
00;24;06;07 - 00;24;09;19
Eventually,
Elon Musk will create the neuro link,
00;24;09;19 - 00;24;12;12
and I'll just be able to think my creative
thoughts. And then.
00;24;12;12 - 00;24;13;15
And then it'll happen.
00;24;13;15 - 00;24;14;29
Total quick side tangent.
00;24;14;29 - 00;24;19;00
We had a better idea
once that was Elon's musk
00;24;19;00 - 00;24;24;09
and it was a perfume cologne
that smelt like Elon Musk.
00;24;24;11 - 00;24;25;07
Yeah.
00;24;25;07 - 00;24;28;13
So it's this was a bad idea.
00;24;28;15 - 00;24;30;03
Yeah. Yeah.
00;24;30;03 - 00;24;32;11
Well, thank you so much for listening.
00;24;32;11 - 00;24;34;23
This is conversation I think. Yeah.
00;24;34;23 - 00;24;36;16
If you have any comments.
00;24;36;16 - 00;24;41;03
I would be curious to hear what your take
is on, on this transparency side
00;24;41;03 - 00;24;41;28
of sharing numbers
00;24;41;28 - 00;24;45;20
and like what it's done for you,
whether positively or negatively.
00;24;45;20 - 00;24;50;04
And I do feel strongly
about this idea of deconstructing this
00;24;50;06 - 00;24;54;02
this like secrecy behind everything,
you know, just for some transparency
00;24;54;02 - 00;24;57;27
here as well, like as as owners,
I think we're trying to
00;24;57;29 - 00;25;01;18
if we're defining transparency
as a value in our company
00;25;01;18 - 00;25;05;11
now, we need to define
tangibly what that means for us.
00;25;05;13 - 00;25;07;18
And so when this conversation came.
00;25;07;18 - 00;25;10;17
Up, how are we
how how are we living that value?
00;25;10;17 - 00;25;11;17
Yes, exactly.
00;25;11;17 - 00;25;14;01
And so there might be
there might still be boundaries there.
00;25;14;01 - 00;25;17;24
There might still be like conversations
that we have yet to tap into.
00;25;17;24 - 00;25;19;11
I think this was one of them.
00;25;19;11 - 00;25;22;10
So I'm I'm glad we we touched on it.
00;25;22;13 - 00;25;26;06
And I hope maybe that the listeners
got a little bit of insight
00;25;26;08 - 00;25;30;01
and maybe some transparency
into like how we talk about these things
00;25;30;01 - 00;25;35;01
and how we operate a little bit more
where we're defining transparency well.
00;25;35;04 - 00;25;36;28
We'll let you know where we get where.
00;25;36;28 - 00;25;40;05
But the conclusion of that
is throughout the year.
00;25;40;07 - 00;25;43;15
Yeah, I hope you found this interesting
and feel free
00;25;43;15 - 00;25;47;24
to leave your reactions
to our reactions to their reactions.
00;25;47;27 - 00;25;50;11
Give, take it, Give us your takes.
00;25;50;11 - 00;25;51;05
It takes a lot to take.
00;25;51;05 - 00;25;56;04
Bo Burnham level
reaction to your reaction.
00;25;56;06 - 00;25;56;18
If you haven't
00;25;56;18 - 00;25;59;25
seen it, you should watch his reaction
video.
00;25;59;25 - 00;26;01;10
It's great.
00;26;01;10 - 00;26;05;12
So this is a side thing we can kind of
00;26;05;14 - 00;26;10;21
I listen to Bo Burnham when I work out. HE
00;26;10;24 - 00;26;11;10
Yeah. Yeah.
00;26;11;10 - 00;26;13;08
Great way to work out. Yeah.
00;26;13;08 - 00;26;14;09
That's a choice.
00;26;14;09 - 00;26;17;23
That is a choice. I love. I love his work.
00;26;17;26 - 00;26;18;14
Oh yeah.
00;26;18;14 - 00;26;21;14
So, but yeah, that's,
that's a choice of the two.
00;26;21;14 - 00;26;24;01
Okay,
so stay tuned for all the excitement.
00;26;24;01 - 00;26;26;12
Of, of what we have teasing.
00;26;26;12 - 00;26;27;14
Yeah. Thank you for listening.
00;26;27;14 - 00;26;32;04
And we will see you next time. See,
00;26;32;06 - 00;26;35;12
this episode was brought to you
by EA Media.
00;26;35;14 - 00;26;37;02
Our producer is Jackson Foote.
00;26;37;02 - 00;26;40;07
Our music was created by Hidden
and licensed from Premium BET.com
00;26;40;12 - 00;26;42;28
and until next time. Stay honest.
00;26;42;28 - 00;26;44;24
Stay creative. Stay open.
00;26;44;24 - 00;26;45;17
Up in big cities.
00;26;45;17 - 00;26;48;17
We will see you
in the next episode. Thank.