Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap

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Did you know?

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At Costco, a jar of olives costs
less than ten bucks.

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Is that, is that true
or are you just making that up?

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A creative on my like Instagram
put out a story

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about how she is
officially going to Costco

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instead of buying olives from Amazon
because it's like $22 less.

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Whoa. You're buying. Ah, wait.

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You're buying olives from Amazon?
That's a terrible.

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No, no, don't. Don't judge.

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It's you know,

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if you have to get a big jar of olives
and you can't get it at a physical store.

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Oh, you mean like.

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Like olives in bulk, I guess.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. Because we buy stuff in bulk
every now and then.

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I don't like olives that much.

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I'm okay with olives, but not that much.

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I wouldn't buy a big jar anywhere.

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I take one or two in my martini
and that's like, That's it.

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You don't. Drink martinis.

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Hello.

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Welcome back. How's it going?
This is Behind The Pixel.

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My name is Will. My name is Kathryn.

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And we are the co-founders of Open
Pixel Studios.

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We are running this podcast.

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This is our second season.

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We've been in business
for about seven years.

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Oof! In February, I think. Mm hmm.

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And this is Behind The Pixel
where we try to bridge the knowledge gap

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between those who buy creative content
and those who make it.

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You did great. Let that sink in.

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Thank you.

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Yeah,
I'm getting better at remembering that.

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So this is a hack.

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I'm pretty sure this is a hack.

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And today
we're talking about source files.

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Source files getting down to the source.

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You got to.
You've got to look at your sources.

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Mm hmm.

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Get your source sources.

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Check your sources.

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Why don't you tell us what source files
are? Yes.

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What the heck are they?

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And what do they do
and why do they hold all the super powers?

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I think is the tagline of this service.

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Sure.

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So what are source files? Source files?

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For those of you who don't know.

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Here's my analogy.

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If you're hiring a chef to make a cake,

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the chef would be the artists, right?

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Who are making the thing.

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Artists have tools like a baking pan
or a whisk

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or an electronic whisk
or I guess that's all I now.

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An automatic stirrer
that stirs in your pan for you

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so you don't have to use your hand
to do anything.

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That's basically the eye of the tools.

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That's right.

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That's so right.

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So those are the tools we use.

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And then there's the ingredients.

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And then the ingredients
in our line of work.

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Usually a chef would have to go out
and buy those ingredients.

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We can sometimes do that.

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We can go out and buy

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some of the things that we need,
but we also make our own ingredients.

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Right.

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We like churn better.

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I don't know.

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Let's skip the analogy for a second.

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But we're making stuff
in order to create the final.

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And I think that's kind of the idea
I'm getting at, right?

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So we put all those things together

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and we create
if you're going back to the analogy,

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if you're the chef,
you're creating a batter,

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and then the batter is the thing
that you actually put under pressure

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and under heat like a deadline
and bake the final video, right?

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Like, sure, I'm mixing.

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Sure. My analogies here. Mm hmm.

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So source files are the ingredients
and the batter together.

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And you can only access those, too,
if you have the tools.

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Right? Right.

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You get me.

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So say you work in Photoshop.

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Photoshop is a very easy thing
to understand.

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Wrap your head around Photoshop.

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If I make an edit to a photo,
I have actually two files.

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I have the file that I give to you,
and then I have the file

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that I created that thing with,
and that is the source file.

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And I think most marketers know
that some nonprofit communication folks

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might not know that,
but that's what source files are.

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So as a company,
sometimes you'll get asked

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to provide those source files
or to not provide those source files,

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depending on the project
and the client type and what have you.

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So is there a reason why

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a client would use source files
and ask us for them?

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Yeah.

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People usually tend to ask for these
source files at the end of the project,

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and usually marketing
folks will ask for source files

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because they're trying to do something
specific with them in case of emergency.

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Right now, that emergency might be the
date of this event shifted.

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It's no longer on December 7th.

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It's on December 25th. Right.

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And we as marketers maybe have Photoshop
as part of our wheelhouse.

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So we could just go in, change
that quick date and then be done.

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Correct. Exactly.

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Now, this gets a little pervasive
from folks

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who may want to be taking advantage
of the type of work

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that you might be giving away
as an artist.

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So in a scenario where,

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let's say you're creating graphics
for a football.

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Game, go sports ball. Yes.

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You know, when you watch a football game,
go sports

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ball,
you have a ton of stuff in in graphics

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that pop up stats and players
names and Africa, what they call that.

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But it's like a sports package. Mm hmm.

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Those are all created with templates
because they all have to swap out.

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You have how many players
on a football team?

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I guess it depends.

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But you have all these players
on a football team.

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You can have like 300 technically. Yeah.

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And you have to have stats for all of them
and so they all have to look the same

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and that kind of thing.

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So you create these templates
and then you kind of give them away

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because they need to use them
consistently for each broadcast.

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Mm hmm.

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That makes sense,
because that's part of the package.

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Now, when you're a marketer or a nonprofit

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and you have a piece of collateral,
some some sort of video that you've made,

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it's an ad maybe for a product
and there's animation in there.

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If you use the source files
for a different product,

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but use the same animation,

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then you're kind of skipping out on hiring

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someone else to do a different thing
for a different product.

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Does that make sense?

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I think so.

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So there's a lot of power
in the source files

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because you can replace, alter or change
all of the things

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within that file
to kind of create something new.

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And there's a sort of moral question
in there.

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Should you do that?

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I don't know.

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It's going in a little bit
into the controversy.

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A little bit.

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Yeah.

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I mean, the biggest the biggest challenge
to working with source files is

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and I think this is why I think
source files come in to different layers.

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Like those source files in terms of like,

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we give you everything that we've worked
on on the project from start to finish,

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even if you don't have the ability
to even open it or work with it.

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Which happens often because.

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Yeah, yeah, there's, there's times
you might not have a 3D package like

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it's expensive to get it
just for the sake of opening

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a file that you
then haven't had experience working with.

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And you might look at this,
you know, Maya file and be like,

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Okay, great, I can open this character,
but how do I render it?

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What does that mean? Like, you know.

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So there's there's a lot there.

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A second issue is that almost
every animation studio will have like

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proprietary pipelines or tools or software
that they work within.

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So even within the tool
that you're being able to have,

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like if you have after effects, let's say,
and you try to open a source file,

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you might not have the plugins that

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the animator used
in order to be able to open it completely.

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So there might be missing links,
There might be like you might get

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all sorts of popups that say you can't use
a big one is like particular.

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So there's things like that that just make
it more difficult to work with.

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Yeah, I think we try to see source files
on two different fronts because there's

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there's a source file level.

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To me, that's for the purpose
of repurposing for marketing.

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So what I mean by that is like
having the ability to take a pose

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of a character that might be waving
or doing something or looking happy,

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whatever that might be in that particular
that was in the animation that you

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then want that one image
for your presentation purpose.

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That's a little bit
different of a situation for me

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that that it's still a source file
that you might be giving,

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but it's packaged in such a way that still
allows you to like open what you need.

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So it's just a
it's a different way of approaching it.

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But also, to your point earlier,
you would hope that for that presentation

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that you're also working with
a graphic design team or the same studio

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to be able to make your presentation
look a lot better because they'll also

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as the creators of that,
they're going to be able to more easily

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go in and make changes
and like extract things as you need it.

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So yeah, it kind of depends.

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Yeah.

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If you're going from video
to print, oftentimes

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what happens is you're our our video
files are like ten htp for print.

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You need to have like a 300 DPI

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like file that's like huge and like,
I can't get that unless you.

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Unless we're animating everything in 4K.

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Exactly.

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Like, you can't get that

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unless you make larger renders and like,
you still need the tools to do that.

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So those are very specific examples.

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But you know, there are other times
when I've heard artists being like,

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Hey, like they're asking for source files
to charge for these.

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Like they contain so much more information

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that is in a way detrimental
to my business, right?

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Like it could be.

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You're taking me out of the you're
taking me out of the loop

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and you're giving away,
like, all my stuff.

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On the flip side,
I've had clients ask for source files

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for projects that are older,
that are consistent on a yearly basis.

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Mm hmm. And, like, they're not helpful.

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You know, like, the source files

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that come in from last year,

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because this year
is an entirely different design.

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And like, it's
an entirely different visual thing.

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It's not going to help you to have those
because it's a yearly event

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that changes every year, you know?

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So the last piece to

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about source files that you can expect,
I think I had a friend

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colleague say this to me
is that we provide source files for free,

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but we do not clean them up.

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So and by that he meant all the layers are
whatever they are,

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There's no renaming,
there's no folder structure.

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Like, whatever you got.

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Have fun with that organization.
Yeah. Yeah.

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If you want to pay us to clean it up,
because it does take some time.

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It takes some time to clean up files.

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It can,

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especially when we're working on deadline
and we're churning out things

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really quickly.

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We're not naming things necessarily
the right way.

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So you're supposed to you got to do it.

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Got to stay clean.

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I'm I'm of the mindset
that you clean it up after you're done.

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Like, I'll I'll work through it.

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We have two different organizations.

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Do well, because I think I don't know
exactly if I'm going to use that layer

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sometimes I make a layer
for like measuring purposes

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and it gets left in the file.

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And then I'm like, you know, who cares?

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So this is a side note,
but I think that comes from our different

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like artistic backgrounds
because like for me it's like the idea of

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like knowing that it's quite possible

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that another character animator
has to work in my shop for some reason.

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And so, like, it needs to be cleaned
so that they can go through it

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and be like, Oh,
I know what to take from this.

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I know what to change.

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Like, especially if they're dealing
with match on actions or things like that.

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So it's just a
it's a courtesy to other artists,

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but it's you're not thinking about it
necessarily from the client perspective.

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Yeah.

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And in a weird way, you're kind of talking
to the other artist if you're

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if you're going to
if you're going to give your file

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to someone else, you're like,
you're kind of secretly like

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having a this other language
that you're giving away to someone else.

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Like there's, there's, there's, you know,
there's like thoughts in the file.

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You're giving me ideas to know,
throw secrets into my source files.

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I just. Oh. I think I've done that.

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Yeah, I have totally done that.

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Like,
I've renamed all the layers. So. Yeah.

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So anyway, those are source files.

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So I think you talked
about all the problems.

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We talked about proprietary tools
and how they get in the way.

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They can be expensive.

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There's messiness in files.

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Do we charge for them?

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That's kind of up to the artist or studio.

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I would say my advice to anyone
who is thinking about getting source files

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from their creative house, just establish
what your goals are with them beforehand

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because it depends on the relationship
you have with them.

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The intention behind the source files
that's going to determine

00;12;52;16 - 00;12;56;18
whether a creative comes back and says,
okay, well we can give you this, but

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or they say, okay, here
we've packaged it in such a way.

00;13;00;12 - 00;13;01;17
This is how you can use it.

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Like I think it's a testament
to being communicative

00;13;05;26 - 00;13;11;07
about your approach to things
and why that's going to change.

00;13;11;07 - 00;13;12;21
The file type that you get.

00;13;12;21 - 00;13;16;04
So yeah, just just be open
and have a conversation

00;13;16;04 - 00;13;19;03
about what types of source files
you need, why you need them,

00;13;19;03 - 00;13;23;21
because there might be a better way
to package what you're looking for, right?

00;13;23;29 - 00;13;24;15
It might be.

00;13;24;15 - 00;13;27;15
You might say, Hey,
I just need that pose from that character

00;13;27;21 - 00;13;30;07
to put into my
our other marketing campaign

00;13;30;07 - 00;13;31;24
because this character
is going to be used throughout.

00;13;31;24 - 00;13;34;02
Maybe it's a mascot. In that case.

00;13;34;02 - 00;13;36;11
I don't necessarily need to package all of

00;13;36;11 - 00;13;39;22
the Maya files that are used to animate it
because you can't open that.

00;13;39;29 - 00;13;44;03
But I can send you a couple renders
that are just that individual frame.

00;13;44;06 - 00;13;47;22
So, you know,
it's just having conversation about that.

00;13;47;23 - 00;13;48;12
Yeah, yeah.

00;13;48;12 - 00;13;51;10
The Y is really important.
That's a good point.

00;13;51;10 - 00;13;51;17
Yeah.

00;13;51;17 - 00;13;56;13
The other thing that I'll mention
lastly here is locking source files.

00;13;56;15 - 00;14;00;07
So there's technically ways to bake

00;14;00;07 - 00;14;04;04
in animation
so that no one really can change it.

00;14;04;04 - 00;14;07;28
And that's where the sort of the chef
is making the batter,

00;14;08;00 - 00;14;09;05
like the way you make them.

00;14;09;05 - 00;14;12;05
If I just handed you over some batter
and you made a cake,

00;14;12;05 - 00;14;16;06
it would taste delicious
because I'm a good chef or whatever.

00;14;16;09 - 00;14;20;05
But if I gave you the ingredients
to that batter,

00;14;20;07 - 00;14;22;21
you might not make the same batter, Right?

00;14;22;21 - 00;14;26;07
You might make some other okay batter.

00;14;26;10 - 00;14;28;15
And that tastes fine, you know?

00;14;28;15 - 00;14;29;17
But anyway, so.

00;14;29;17 - 00;14;31;11
So there are ways to lock those files.

00;14;31;11 - 00;14;32;23
So be aware of that, too.

00;14;32;23 - 00;14;34;16
Some artists might be doing that.
I don't know.

00;14;34;16 - 00;14;38;14
We do that in specific situations
only because we use proprietary software

00;14;38;14 - 00;14;42;12
and our animations that require
kind of that to be the case. So.

00;14;42;14 - 00;14;44;00
So it just depends. Yeah.

00;14;44;00 - 00;14;48;15
Be honest and transparent
with your goals behind source files.

00;14;48;22 - 00;14;52;07
They shouldn't be intimidating
or scary per say.

00;14;52;09 - 00;14;56;18
We don't want you to have source files
and then be like, Oh, what do I even do?

00;14;56;18 - 00;14;57;11
How do I do this?

00;14;57;11 - 00;14;59;21
Or like,
it's a pain in the butt to work with.

00;14;59;21 - 00;15;03;26
So I think it's just, yeah, be mindful
and have those conversations.

00;15;03;29 - 00;15;06;16
Cool. Well,
I think that's it for this episode.

00;15;06;16 - 00;15;10;28
Thank you so much for listening
and we will see you in the next episode.

00;15;11;01 - 00;15;11;28
You know? You're welcome.

00;15;11;28 - 00;15;13;17
I'm happy to listen any time.

00;15;13;17 - 00;15;15;25
So are we just talking to each other?

00;15;15;25 - 00;15;17;08
I get it. I see what you're saying.

00;15;17;08 - 00;15;19;02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;15;19;02 - 00;15;21;17
I did a a riff.

00;15;21;17 - 00;15;23;26
A riff, but good improv.

00;15;23;26 - 00;15;28;00
I kind of something.

00;15;28;02 - 00;15;34;06
See you next time.

00;15;34;08 - 00;15;37;12
A big thank you, as always, to E Media
for producing this podcast.

00;15;37;13 - 00;15;39;10
Our producer is Jackson Foote.

00;15;39;10 - 00;15;43;10
Our music is created by hidden
and licensed through premium FT.com.

00;15;43;10 - 00;15;46;14
And as always, stay honest, stay creative.

00;15;46;16 - 00;15;49;03
Stay open. Open Pixel Studios.

00;15;49;03 - 00;15;50;16
Thanks. We'll see you in the next episode.